Ladies first…
My view of women’s colleges at the ancient universities has always been somewhat condescending, not to mention indignant. They are both patronising (to women, who are treated as though they are not on an intellectual par with men) and unfair (to men, who are not allowed in). I notice that, much like in the case of circumcision, female egalitarians become remarkably silent when the issue is raised.
Especially when it comes to the pool, women’s colleges are unjust: first, they receive fewer applications and those they do receive , I think it’s fair to say, are of a lower quality, and therefore they will be more likely to take from the pool; meanwhile, they only take women, which means that men are at a disadvantage in the pool based solely on their gender.
All of that having been said, two (female) friends of mine were snapped up by New Hall and Newnham from the pool, and I am forced to concede that they both deserved to go to any Cambridge college. I must therefore conclude that while my antipathy towards these bastions of sexism remains as virulent as ever, this prejudice ought not apply to those who inhabit them.
Whilst I agree to some extent with Leo’s point of view, the real point at hand, is that whilst Women’s colleges are ultimately discriminatory, there are other things which will discriminate whether a college will take somebody.
As my sister has dyspraxia, St. Cat’s couldn’t take her as they didnt have enough disabled bedrooms, which was apparently what my sister would need.
Just to point out, it’s not only women colleges which can be discriminatory…..
Yes, I agree, men do have a worse chance in the pool. For example, there could be 20 fantastic men in the pool, and 20 less fantastic women in the pool. However, because the women’s colleges have such an abundance of places which need to be filled, the likelihood is that all 20 of those pooled women would then get into Cambridge, while there may not be any room for those brilliant men in any other colleges. So, Cambridge would then be depriving itself of those better men, whilst accepting less-brilliant women.
If the women’s colleges (or at least even one) were to accept men, then those more-deserving males would actually get the place they merit.
I’m a New Hall graduate and I got my place from the pool - and I had an extraordinarily good offer too (two E grades only - I couldn’t believe it!) The points made here are uncomfortable for me but I have to concede that they are true: I was definitely not a brilliant candidate compared to some of the men who were also in the pool as they were able to offer much more than I could to the university and get a lot more out of it too.
They were more likely to get First degrees, push the boundaries of research and make excellent personal progress as well as apply their intellect and commitment to their field. I was more interested in theatre and non-syllabus literary pursuits, drinking, partying and generally causing mayhem, a glorified three year extension of what I had been doing at A Levels already. The very existence of women’s colleges means that people like me had a chance to study at one of the best universities in the world while someone with far more academic rigour had to go to a different sort of place.
Yet, I think I deserved my place at Cambridge nonetheless, and clearly so did the University - not just New Hall. It’s important to remember that the college originally applied to makes the decision to send an applicant to the pool, and that decision won’t be based on gender or likelihood of a less popular college having an abundance of places to fill. The decision will be based on whether or not an applicant seemed suitable for three very intensive years at a very tough university, and whether or not that applicant should still be considered by the university overall if the original college won’t accept him / her.
It won’t neccessarily be the case that all the women submitted to the pool will automatically get places at the women’s colleges and be able to enjoy an Oxbridge education - even though they are not popular, the women’s colleges may be fully subscribed and not be able to take from the pool, therefore keeping the playing field fairly level. Also, the women’s colleges (just like any other Oxbridge college) would not necessarily take applicants from the pool just to fill empty places. Cambridge and Oxford can afford to run smaller classes and are not obliged to fill each and every place in the same way less endowed universities have to.
I would argue that women in the pool have a higher chance of getting a place at Cambridge because the presence of Newnham and New Hall increase the number of places available to them - but we would have to investigate the chance of being entered into the pool in the first place to truly debate ideas around ‘deserving’ and the quality of the people accepted in this way.